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What did the placebo arm of REDEFINE-1 report for fatigue?

Asked 22 Mar 2024Modified 2.0 years agoViewed 27k times
11

Conditions: REDEFINE-1 · fatigue.

I would like to know the limits of what can be inferred from this.

What I am trying to avoid is over-reading a single result, which I have done before.

What would I need in addition before this supported a decision?

clinical-trials
clinical-trials

Reading the primary literature properly: estimands, intention-to-treat versus per-protocol, confidence intervals, absolute versus relative…

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fatigue
fatigue

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askedswirl_dont_shake10k1422 Mar 2024
5Same situation here, so I will follow this one. – bea_castellanos 5 months ago
4Which trial, and which endpoint? The question is answerable once those are named. – dmitri_savchuk 3 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
77

Accepted answer

The REDEFINE-1 placebo arm is the only thing that makes its treatment arm interpretable, and it is the row nobody quotes. Symptoms reported under placebo in these programmes are not rare, because the population is being asked about them weekly and would have had some of them regardless. The attributable figure is the treated rate minus the placebo rate, and that difference is routinely a fraction of the headline. Two cautions on the subtraction: the arms must have been assessed the same way, and a discontinuation for an event removes that participant from later time points in both arms, which flatters whichever arm loses more people.

The trial answers a narrower question than the headline suggests, and the narrowing is where the useful information is.

Placebo arms in this class are not nothing. Lifestyle-intervention placebo arms in the major obesity trials commonly lose two to three per cent of body weight, so an active-arm figure quoted without its comparator overstates the drug effect by roughly that much.

Concretely, confidence intervals matter more than point estimates when two trials disagree. Two studies reporting fifteen and twenty per cent whose intervals overlap heavily have not disagreed about anything.

Where a result is quoted from a conference abstract rather than a peer-reviewed publication, the numbers routinely move between the two. It is worth checking which one you are reading.

I am not a clinician and this is not medical advice; it is a reading of a published protocol.

When two sources disagree, the answer is almost always in the methods section of the one you have not read.

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answered · acceptedsunniva_dahl22k2721 Jun 2024
4The placebo-arm figure is the part everyone omits. – cake_intact 2 months ago
3Which population was that figure from? It moves a lot between the trials. – sian_llewellyn 20 days ago
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93

Before comparing two trials, check whether they share an endpoint definition. Frequently they do not, and the numbers then are not comparable in any sense.

A composite endpoint is only as informative as its least serious component. Where a cardiovascular composite combines death, infarction and stroke, ask which component moved, because they are not interchangeable outcomes.

To be exact about it, intention-to-treat and per-protocol analyses answer different questions. ITT asks what happens if you offer the treatment; per-protocol asks what happens if it is taken as directed. The gap between the two is a measure of how tolerable the protocol was.

Meta-analyses in this area are dominated by whichever trial contributed the most participants, so read the forest plot rather than the summary estimate.

One qualification: absence of a signal in a trial of this size is not evidence of absence for a rare event. It is evidence that the event is rarer than the trial could detect.

Read the protocol and the statistical analysis plan if the result matters to you. Both are usually published alongside.

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GI
answeredgunnar_isaksen14k1714 Jul 2024
61

The short version: the effect is real, the magnitude depends on the population, and the population is usually the part that gets dropped when a result is quoted second-hand.

Open-label extensions are not the same evidence as the randomised phase. Once everyone knows what they are taking, the reported outcomes acquire a bias that no analysis fully removes.

It helps to be literal here: duration decides what can be seen. A 68-week trial can measure weight and glycaemia; it cannot measure anything whose event rate is one per cent per year without enrolling tens of thousands.

The cardiovascular outcome programme in this class runs to several large randomised trials — LEADER for liraglutide, SUSTAIN-6 and SELECT for semaglutide, REWIND for dulaglutide — and they are the reason the class is discussed as more than a weight intervention.

Be careful about generalising from a trial population to yourself. The exclusion criteria are usually the most informative page in the supplement.

Quote the interval alongside the estimate and half the disagreements on this site would not start.

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DF
answeredDr_Colm_Fitzhenry69k24727 Mar 2024
36

Start with what the trial was powered for. Everything else in the publication is secondary, exploratory, or a subgroup, and those three words mean three different things.

Non-inferiority and superiority designs are not interchangeable. A non-inferiority result says the new agent is not meaningfully worse against a pre-specified margin — it does not say it is as good, and it certainly does not say it is better.

Registry entries at ClinicalTrials.gov carry the pre-specified primary endpoint with a timestamp, which is the cheapest available check on whether an endpoint was changed after the data were seen.

If a claim cannot be traced to a named trial with a named endpoint, treat it as a claim rather than as evidence.

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MT
answeredmarcus_thorbjorn9.4k163 Jul 2024
Good answer, but the confidence interval in the cited trial is wider than implied. – tobias_reint 4 months ago
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30

Look at the discontinuation rate alongside the efficacy figure. A large effect in the two thirds who stayed is a different result from a large effect in everyone.

Trial populations are selected. Exclusion criteria in this class routinely remove people with significant renal impairment, prior pancreatitis and unstable psychiatric illness, which is exactly the population the results are then quoted for.

SELECT reported a hazard ratio of 0.80 (95% CI 0.72–0.90) for the primary composite major adverse cardiovascular event endpoint with semaglutide 2.4 mg in overweight or obese adults with established cardiovascular disease and without diabetes[1].

The short version: check the endpoint, check the comparator, check who was excluded, then look at the number.

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SD
answeredsunniva_dahl22k2729 Apr 2024
Worth flagging that this changed with the 2025 publication, so older answers are out of date. – sample_id 2 months ago
8The exclusion criteria are the most informative page in the supplement and nobody reads them. – plate_count_9k 19 days ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.